CGC vs CBCS vs PGX

Check this out. Is this a new trend? Raw 9.6 selling for a higher price than cgc 9.6, hope this continues.

going by previous sold raw copies, I would say that auction was “shilled”…or just some really really stupid bidders

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Folks with their “I’m a miracle worker/Voodoo magic/presser” believing they can get that all mighty 9.8/9.9, etc.

I love this book/love Stevens…but this book is not rare. It has been hoarded a bit by folks but they are out there. These are absurd prices (on any of these Stevens books) and there will come a reckoning.

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Could be but people pay silly prices for high grades. I could see someone inspecting the book carefully and deciding that they want this at such a high grade that they are willing to pay for it. A cgc 9.8 also sold for $2888, so they may be thinking they’re getting a deal for something they want in their collection. Buying the book, not the grade that cgc graders are assigning to them.

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I have a 9.6 that I may put up.
Or I’ll just crack the slab based on they go for more $$$ :rofl: :crazy_face:
They’ll be crushed when they find out it’s already been pressed professionally

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I give up with them.

I just hope I can still sell my encapsulated horse manure to those that don’t know any better & don’t look at damning evidence … every … single … week now.

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What year, what type of horse and did someone famous own it!?

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The whole graders notes thing has always “time permitting, at CGC’e discretion.”

The fact they have graders notes tells me either they have to justify why a 9.9 did not get a 10.0, or they have too much time on their hands.

The fact that this is one example from 2005 when maybe they didn’t have as much h business at the time tells me it’s more the latter than the former.

It could have been a data entry error…maybe the notes of another book got entered into this one. Are the defects present on the book? Can we grab a few more 9.9s from that era and confirm this was the standard at the time? Or did we search for days on end, 1000s of 9.9s until we found one example to complain about?

Either way, 2005 was 19 years ago and a lot has changed. All the more reason to buy the book, not the grade. Book could have been stuck in a window faded, dropped 5 times or swapped out…maybe all the above!

Since when is an mis-wrap a defect? I’ve never heard that before. And it is not in their grading guide that I can see. They affect value as certain collectors are picky about centering/symmetry, but it’s not a grading attribute that impacts the number. Extreme mis-wraps receive qualified grades, but the actual grade is not impacted.

PGX has always been the red headed stepchild of “professional” grading… If they don’t take advantage of this somehow it will be a huge, missed opportunity. CBCS as well, but they are generally better received by collectors, but they should not sleep on CGC’s stupidity…and that is what this really is, stupidity by monumental proportions.

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Saw a post from cbcs yesterday where they took a CGC 5.5 Daredevil #1 with “name written on cover” pressed it and signature verified it as Stan Lee. Thats the kind of thing they need to post more of.

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I feel you on the CGC frustration. I’ve had mixed experiences too. CBCS is my go-to for their tough grading, despite the wait. Haven’t tried PGX, but your quick turnaround sounds tempting.

Hey guys some potential good news but it’s all hypothetical right now laid out by swagglehaus. If what he theorizes actually comes true, this could potentially be the first real credible threat to CGC.

Unlike most people here, I don’t believe CGC is like Teflon where they can just do anything to screw over its customers and not have ramifications for their business. I’m constantly keeping up with the collecting community and very much in tune with what’s happening. I find this part of the hobby fascinating. I drink (and watch) and know things. :grin:
Been seeing a lot of content creators saying they’ve stopped sending in submissions to CGC to see the lay of the land on this 9.9 prescreen and how it’s going to affect the market. I’m not talking about the usual suspects like Comictom and Very Gary, I’m talking about some of the smaller influencers that aren’t as widely followed.

All it takes is a credible company to come in, be innovative and they can easily overtake the market from CGC. Wishful thinking for now, I know. But think of giant corporations like Blockbuster who had cornered the market and then Netflix came in and the downfall of Blockbuster was Swift and deadly.

Enter in Goldin Auctions, PSA and the Vault. Card collectors already know about PSA and the Vault where you can get your cards sent in to get graded and sold remotely on eBay. PSA has acquired the Vault from eBay and now with the 3 companies working together, it could be real bad news for CGC. There’s been rumors of PSA getting into comics for a while now and this news is encouraging.

Think of it this way. You have Avengelyne #1 in your grubby hands right now. Current market value is $10-25. It could very likely be worthless in a matter of weeks (or even next Monday). Now you can send it to the Vault, have PSA grade it and list it on eBay for you seamlessly. You don’t need to rent out a storage unit for your comix!!! I know for a fact some dealers that I talk to would be over the moon if this came into fruition (they are in fact renting out a storage unit paying hundreds to thousands per month). It would all be so seamless and easy. No more putting up with Cgc’s crap and waiting weeks to get your books there and back and then list, pack and mail it again to buyers. It’s like ebays global shipping where you send in Avengelyne 1, and they’ll do the rest. Or how about a Netflix weekly show with Nicholas Cage getting more people into comic book collecting?

Check out the video as swagglehaus will be able to explain this in great detail. What are your thoughts?

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You are the crow in the Pokey Little Puppy’s first Christmas…

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This might be the time the rumors come true, I’m quite interested to see what happens these next few weeks.

The Blockbuster/Netflix metaphor is interesting, but I think the PSA/vault possibilities will have a lot to prove to the comic market.

If you have a raw book that you want to slab and sell, there’s no telling how fast or how slow PSA will be to grade comics – at least initially. Or how accurate their comic grading will be. You may send in what you think is a raw 10 and then have to decide whether to list it if it ends up an 8 or 9. Or worse, got damaged in shipping and arrived to PSA as a 5 or something. They’ll need a way for you to flag things in case they screw up the label info like CGC sometimes does, or if the slab case has problems.

(I don’t deal with cards, so if PSA already has all these scenarios nailed in the card space, I’m oblivious.)

The ease of this will appeal to sellers, but the grading will have to be somewhat tight, somewhat fast AND somewhat as profitable as CGC slab sales to win favor en masse. Buyers will also want reliable grading and an attractively designed case/label to choose over CGC/CBCS.

It’s possible, but it’s a lot to overcome.

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I don’t know. CGC started is 2000. PGX started up a short time later in 2002 but has never been much competition. It took 12 more years (2014) before CBCS officially challenged CGC. And most question how much of a “challenge” they represent from a market perspective.

I thought when Steve Borrock joined MyComicShop it was a move to help MCS jump into the comic grading and encapsulation, as they already “grade” books they sell (raw grading). Then he left for personal reasons (closer to family).

If a newcomer is going to join the fray, it’s going to have to come from a source that already has experience and trust with in grading “similar” collectible (e.g. PSA). But with the obvious slowing down in people sending in books overall, I don’t see it happening for a while…could be a slow gradual process slithering their way into the mix.

Nothing to get too excited about for good or bad for a while. But more competition should be good for the collector.

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The Blockbuster/Netflix metaphor is interesting, but I think the PSA/vault possibilities will have a lot to prove to the comic market.
If you have a raw book that you want to slab and sell, there’s no telling how fast or how slow PSA will be to grade comics – at least initially. Or how accurate their comic grading will be. You may send in what you think is a raw 10 and then have to decide whether to list it if it ends up an 8 or 9. Or worse, got damaged in shipping and arrived to PSA as a 5 or something. They’ll need a way for you to flag things in case they screw up the label info like CGC sometimes does, or if the slab case has problems.

Sounds like the problems we’re having with cgc currently :grin:

All kidding aside, PSA is a giant in the card grading ecosphere. They’re the most popular grading company for sports cards/pokemon. The most reliable, the most consistent and commands the most after market value. Cbcs and pgx are not a viable threat to dethrone CGC. PSA is on a whole different level entirely and a real legitimate threat if they choose to get their foot into grading comics.

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I don’t know. CGC started is 2000. PGX started up a short time later in 2002 but has never been much competition. It took 12 more years (2014) before CBCS officially challenged CGC. And most question how much of a “challenge” they represent from a market perspective.

PGX has no one to blame but themselves by having their own scandals that ruined their reputation that they never recovered.

Even today pGX is not a credible company. I watch a lot of videos on pressing and cleaning and keep tabs on the discussions over the years. Recently I was watching a video from a comic presser (Liberty Hill Comics) and he bought a golden age PGX slab that he saw some imperfections that he was sure he could give some nice cpr to and then submit to cgc to get it regraded.

Upon cracking the PGX slab he noticed he couldn’t clean the covers. It was a lot smoother/glossier than the golden age books he’s seen. The dirt wouldn’t come out of the covers and onto his cotton pads. As soon as he touched the covers he knew that the comic has been re-glossed and that PGX has missed it and gave it a universal label.

The viewers on his channel felt it was unfair for him to accuse PGX without finding out for sure and encouraged him to send it into CGC for grading. He thought that was fair even though he knew 100% that it has been re-glossed. Comic was sent in to cgc and shortly afterwards did a follow up video and sure enough got a qualified green label with notes saying it was re-glossed.

For all the mud slinging we throw at CGC, they’re still a real grading company with qualified graders. I would never ever send my books to pGX. Steve Borrock doesn’t allow people to post PGX labels on the cbcs forum when he was still working there, main reason was because he didn’t want to legitimatize PGX as a company. Steve still has a PGX slab sitting in his office and he talks about it when he does interviews. He pulls it out and talks about the black sharpie marker that someone used to color touch the book. Was done so amateurly, yet PGX missed it.

I had heard a rumor a while ago that Steve Geppi had bought grading equipment and slabs and was looking at going into grading. Not sure how true it was but it was an interesting rumor.

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