Spidey / Spawn Crossover?!?

I apologize. I missed that post.
That wiki entry seems fairly pretentious and unsophisticated. Lol.
When were comic books supposed to be sophisticated, especially Spidey books? Spidey and sophistication are not synonymous.

I would argue that speculators were the cause of the 90s crash. That and a horrible business model within the industry at the time. Marvel, and every publisher at the time, did their part by catering to the speculation.
And in another post, you were defending DC for trying to make money by marketing Batman89, and here you are knocking Marvel for essentially the same thing. :thinking: Having said that, yeah, I agree that Marvel pumps out way to much filler these days. I believe the market to be legitimately strong atm, and we are not in a repeat cycle of the 90s. The business model has changed drastically since then. Print runs alone are much more manageable now. Much more sustainable now, imo, with current growth in a dying medium (print).

Umm… no. Marketing your book with two covers while Marvel releasing books with 30+ covers are completely two different scenarios… Marvel can do the same thing DC did, if they want to promote a character in the story that’s coming out next month… Now when they say, oh yeah… you can choose from the 30 f#%king variants (buy them all please) and 20 store variants… that’s not me knocking their marketing per se like DC did, that’s me knocking their cash grab on collectors who are weak minded and can’t just stick to buying one cover. :wink:

The crash of the 90s was a combination of Publishers (Marvel started it with these variant chase, just like sports cards ruined their hobby with the chase inserts) and the speculation as well.

Honestly, things have changed but if you take out Marvel’s variants, the print runs should be much smaller than they are now.

A lot of people have moved on in a digital world. The paper industry for comics is now for the collectors and speculators, not so much the casual readers treating them like periodicals. Sure we still have readers out there but the print run numbers show what I think is an industry that has evolved and not so many read via print nowadays. And yes, Marvel’s numbers look so much better print run wise cause they keep pumping out variants and #1’s…

When I say we’re in the repeat cycle, that’s me saying they’re doing the same thing they did in the 90s, it’s just a different state of the industry now though, so the repercussions are going to different, if or when they come down.

The sports card hobby crashed not because of inserts. It crashed because they (Upper Deck) were saying there were only so many cards made but they were still printing out the valuable rookie cards like Ken Griffey Jr.

Meh, chase cards were fun at first (when it was just a few) but then when packs went from 15 cards at 50 cents to 5 cards at $2.99 or higher… honestly, it went from a kids hobby to a grown man with money hobby (and not even hobby for men, investment opportunities)…

The whole Upper Deck printing more is just a side effect in my opinion. It was all about the chase for the rare cards and that’s why I got out and I also discovered girls around the time.

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Well the prices were bound to go up regardless that was the best part. Opening packs to see if you got any limited edition cards like Autographs and Game Worn Jerseys kept me collecting for years. Not worth much of anything nowadays but it was fun for awhile.

The comic crash was a combination of huge print runs, shops over ordering and the gimmick covers.

Oh for sure… it’s really like the scratch off lotto tickets type of mentality. The whole thrill of the chase excites people and gets them to buy more. It’s a great marketing strategy.

I know prices were bound to go up but it really seemed like they took off over night, not gradually. Seriously, I’d buy Donruss and Topps backs for 50 cents in 1988 and 1989… then Upper Deck came along and suddenly packs were $1.00, then $1.50… then $3.00… and the amount of cards shrunk… we all know that gloss that is likely the cause of global climate change now did not cost them that much more to print… :wink:

Yes, but like I said, much more manageable.

Agreed, but as you said, the market has changed. Regardless of the reasons why, sales of floppies and TPBs were up slightly last year. So it is a much healthier market this time around, and as you can probably tell by your ever increasing site traffic, that it appears to be a moderately strong, small, niche market as we currently stand.

Two different scenarios, but it boils down to each respective publisher doing what they feel they need to do to move books and make a profit at wholesale prices. That is their goal as publishers, right? So, yes, essentially the same thing. :wink:

But we don’t have numbers on who’s buying? Stronger numbers could have been caused by more speculation, which in turn could have led to speculators selling to other speculators.

From a standpoint of more sales though, yes, last year was better than year before but that only helps the publishers. The health of the industry on a whole to me is pretty subjective still… since we just don’t have all the facts and likely never will.

Site traffic on CHU means nothing when it comes to health of the comic industry. I wish otherwise but one reason I can say our numbers are going up is more content, etc. Where there use to be gaps in articles posted, we’ve been posting more consistently in the past year which I think is a big part of it. Our actual subscriber numbers have not drastically changed in the past 2 years.

Agree to disagree. I don’t think me backing DC promoting a new character is the same as me shitting on Marvel in them inflating their print numbers with numerous cover variants. Those are two completely different marketing strategies by two different companies. Yes, both are marketing but yes, both are completely different scenarios like you pointed out. So, I don’t find the irony in backing one over the other in this case.

Is there a rule if you back one marketing strategy, you have to back them all? I surely hope not.

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The Sports Card makers drove their own nails in their own Coffins by continued price increases and gimmicks … they drove their main market, kids, out of the hobby because an allowance only goes so far …

The Comic Market in the 1990’s crashed and almost burned because of the Perfect Storm of Publishers / Speculators / Shops that looked at it as a quick buck, until Customers got wise …

Kids that buy and read Comics these days is fairly rare, in my experience, anyway … generally, my sales to young folks come out of the $1.00 boxes … and that’s fine … When a Parent comes in and asks about something for their 10 year old who they want to encourage reading with, I direct them to clean, kid friendly Trades or GN’s …

In todays World, so many books end up bagged / boarded and stashed … collectors get anal over condition (not all, but most / many) …

On Mr McFarlane and his writing skills :: One Persons Trash is Another Persons Treasure … as with most subjective issues …


Agreed. But, given how the industry operates now with print to order and foc, shops should be ordering what they can sell. That, to me, indicates that the print numbers are relative to the market they supply. And those numbers have slight growth.
And no, site traffic isn’t proof of anything, but again, it is an indicator of the state of market. If you had no traffic, that would be a bad sign for the industry as a whole. The subject is wholly debatable, but I think, given the numerous indicators (not all stated here) that that gives us a fairly clear picture of where we stand as a hobby/industry, in terms of a healthy market. You and I can disagree on that. But I don’t think speculation is as rampant as some think. Yes, it’s a percentage of the sales, but I do not believe it to be as influential as some do, towards print numbers. Reading this week’s Forum shows us that not a lot of speculators are pre ordering very much of anything, and thus not truly affecting the prints on any given book.

I can say a large majority of our traffic is coming from the same sources, the spec community. Sure, we get new users but for the most part it’s regulars and regulars hitting the site more, thus creating more views as a whole. CHU use to go 2-4 days between posts, Tuesdays were always the big post days. Now we’ve been posting daily to hopefully grow the site into more, that’s where the traffic is coming from, well in terms of hopefully nabbing new readers.

Should and do are two very different things. We all know there are shops that are still enticed by ratio variants, filling their shelves with books they cannot sell on release day. BJ was the perfect example of how a shop should not operate… where is out buddy BJ… he vanished off the planet or something!

Guido from PayPal dropped by with a baseball bat and demanded the Money be paid up … :vulcan_salute:


That’s both sad and funny at the same time…


@jcLu and @agentpoyo, you guys off work today? Geesh…

Is it one of those wiki pages anyone can modify? Because I can fix that…

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Regardless :: Fast runups in prices, exponential price growth, disinterest in collecting, and a lack of true interest in the medium are all historically bad news for hobbies … The bedrock of any collectible is the genuine interest that people have in the material … That causes natural price appreciation … Speculator interest hijacks this, ramps it out of control, then causes a serious hangover when the music stops …