So, I don’t have any of these books, so I have no skin in this game, but it seems to me that we were having an argument a couple months ago about Hunter’s Moon in Moon Knight 3 and the only reason anyone could give for #1 not being a full appearance was that he wasn’t in full costume. We learned his real name and his alterego name, he was in multiple panels and even wore his mask, but almost no one thought it was a first full because he was still in a suit.
Echo isn’t actually “Echo” until she puts on the costume in 11, so everyone making the Hunter’s Moon argument would have to agree that the real first full appearance of Echo is #11, right?
Wouldn’t this be a first appearance of Maya Lopez - #9, first cameo of Echo in #10 and first full appearance as Echo in #11?
So many technicalities, such as whether the character is in costume, if they are named, if they have dialog, how many panels they appear in, etc. I do like to collect both, the first appearance of a character and the first appearance of their persona. But geez, this always gets confusing and annoying. So many cameos now.
You also see people argue a point because of emotion (such as they bought too much of “the wrong issue”).
The rapid development of a character into their persona makes the first appearance subjective and complicated.
To ecliptic’s point, it’s almost best to collect all issues if you like the character or are looking for an investment because you never know which one fans will attach to most.
Now, can we discuss the character I want to see developed more? Cole North
I’m with Moon Knight #1 being first Hunter Moon only reason people try to pin it on #3 is because the print run is so large for #1 with all the exclusives and what not and unscrupulous comic flippers can’t sell it for a profit. #3 is 2nd appearance 1st cover which isn’t too shabby but I wouldn’t list it 1st Hunter Moon if I was selling it.
I’m also with Daredevil #9 being first Echo I don’t care about name changes or new nicknames. EOSV #2 is first Spider-Gwen and Ghostspider. Just because RIRI goes by Ironheart now doesn’t give her a 2nd 1st appearance she still does the same things and powers as when she was called Iron Man. Mantle changes are way more important than name changes or costume changes. So Echo becoming Phoenix is more important than first time Maya was called Echo in my book.
You’re not wrong about this. That’s why I think sometimes we (meaning the collecting and speculating community writ large) gets too bogged down in the weeds to the point that they forget the big picture.
It goes back to Hulk 180 vs 181. 180 is absolutely Wolverine’s first appearance. The market favors 181 though. Isn’t that what we all care about?
9, 10, 11 all seem to have a claim, but where is the market? What book do Fans of the character seek out? Which one do they want in their personal collection? Which one is the issue of primary significance for the character?
Yep, the mantle changes are not talked about much either. For example, I have Carol Danver’s first appearance in Marvel Superheroes, her first appearance as Ms. Marvel, Binary, Warbird, etc. But my favorite one of all is her first appearance as Captain Marvel in Avenging Spider-man because that is how they introduced her in the MCU.
Notice that I did not speak of Captain Marvel Volume 7 #1 where she “takes on the name.” Arrrrrrrg.
People need to just be honest and say how they really feel about these arguments “Hulk 180 is wolverine’s first appearance because its the book I own” .I get tired of seeing the same cameo vs full arguments on my comic feed everyday
Meanwhile, I’m over in another thread arguing that the ESB digest paperback is Boba’s first appearance and that Rebels Magazine 1 Egmont is Sabine and the Rebels’ first appearance.
All of these things we’re saying can be true and they can also not matter at all.
People care about Hulk 181, not Foom 2 or 180.
People care about Star Wars 42, not ESB Illustrated Digest.
People care about Rebels #6, not Rebels Magazine 1.
The market speaks to what people consider the most significant issue regardless of definitional firsts.
surprised I didnt see people talk about this. First appearance is destroyer duck 1 unless theres some obscure random preview book with a sketch of him or something
Prices for any Tomb of Dracula #10 copies are steadily increasing. A crappy one with cover that had been detached sold a couple of days ago on ebay for $460.
Remember everyone, market value doesn’t dictate if it’s a first or not. It just simply tells us which one people are willing to spend more on, driving the value up.
In the tune of Mr. Ed…
A first is a first… of course of course…
Anyone can say otherwise of course
That is of course unless the first
Is being claimed by a pumper dumper!
Yikes…mine will be here in a few days for my monthly shipment. I won’t sell because I really like the character, but didn’t expect it to bolt that quickly.
