Be careful of that verbage ‘limited to’. ‘Limited to’ does not equal ‘print run’. They could have another 1000 copies that they are sitting on. Hype up the book by advertising ‘limited to’ then they slowly trickle out the other copies at the inflated prices obtained by not disclosing the actual print run, subsequently secretly raising the supply unbeknownst to those who invested in what they thought was limited to 500.
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They dont have to limit anything. No one is asking for proof on how many they sold. They can easily say 500 and then have the online store index set to 3000.
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I’ve heard this before, but is there any evidence of this actually happening? I mean besides the standard overrun of copies for the people involved, has there ever been a confirmed case of a store citing a “limited run” of 500 but really printed 3000 of them?
And yes I understand it’s possible, but I’m just curious if it’s more paranoia than anything else.
Yes. There is evidence all the time. The minimum ordering requirements are known by certain members of the community. The stores then advertise ‘limited to’ X copies, which is well below the minimum order requirement from the publisher.
I implore you to email, or FB any store and ask them what the actual print run is. See if you can get a straight answer, if your message isn’t deleted it ignored.
The stores have made their beds in this matter by being glaringly opaque regarding the whole scenario. Whether true, or not, they can not be trusted to reveal the truth.
Every collector gets a hard on for the words ‘print run’, especially when the associated number is small. The smaller the better. So, if you were a store and you were trying your best to honestly promote your items, using the words ‘print run’ of 500’ should be as appealing as sin. Yet, the store decides to use some other term, like ‘limited to’, which doesn’t really mean anything.
So, in short, yes, there has been a ton of evidence over the years. The stores have not been transparent, and thus they can no longer be trusted. Snake oil salesmen. Very easy to be transparent, yet they choose not to be. Who benefits from that?
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Remember, some stores are under NDA from using “print run” as well… It’s been made clear from some that within the NDA, they’re not allowed to say “print run” for their exclusives, at least when it comes to Marvel’s exclusives. So, can’t entirely blame the stores for using the terms “limited” or “exclusive” when it’s just marketing tactics to make people buy…
Yep. I had it right in my brain. Just wrote it in a confusing way. 
Curious to see what the metal feature is. Probably foil.
I know Marvel’s minimum is 3000 for the first variant and subsequent variants of the same issue can have fewer (so the “trade dress” variant is 3000, but the virgin is 1500, virgin color splash is 1000, etc.). I’m guessing the smaller publishers have smaller requirements, but I don’t know for sure.
None of the rest of what you wrote is actual evidence, though. There is a ton of accusations and implications, but I haven’t seen anyone point to an actual time where a store advertised a variant to be limited to X copies and then be called out when it was actually proven to be Y copies printed.
I’m not saying it hasn’t happened, but I’d really love to see some proof before I jump on a bandwagon.
The Comic Mint does that for their “Ultimate” editions, and they fully explain what it means. Since they don’t want to print 166 and have one come out as a 9.6 or lower (they presell them as 9.8s), they print more than that and destroy anything that they don’t need once they hit the number of 9.8s required. The exceptions are extra copies for the artist/publisher, but they don’t amount to much (and that’s the “complimentary overprint”).
Here’s my 2 cents on store “exclusives”. Agree or disagree, doesn’t affect me. This is just me and the way I see it.
First of all, store variants, exclusives, limited print run or whatever else you guys like to call them is a way for the stores to get extra income to pay the bills. I know that it has gotten out of hand with some stores, but hey we all have bills to pay. If we as the consumer don’t want to buy the book, then let’s not buy the book. If the book is to much, oh well move on to the next one. There will always be a store doing one of these. Also, stores take a gamble on these store exclusives. Say if they ordered a book of such amount printed and no one wants to buy it, they just lost all the money that went into getting one done. I mean the artist got paid, the publisher got paid, everyone else got paid that was involved. But what about the shop that put all this money to get it done?
For example, CHU did an exclusive for black. I know damn straight that it cost a lot to get the book made. Did Anthony get paid? Maybe. Did the partner get paid? Maybe. Did they make a proffit? Possibly not since we haven’t seen an exclusive in a long time. Will I keep buy CHU exclusives to help them out F@#% YEAH I WILL!!!
I mean people are getting all mad about the word exclusive or limited print who cares, it’s your money and you worked you @$$ off to get that money. Do want you will. How I see it, is your supporting that store with what you can and of you want to.
Runt out!!!
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I’m not saying you are right or wrong, I’m not a big store variant guy, but couldn’t this be easily explained by that it was split between multiple stores? Most variants these days seem to be split by 2-3-4 stores so each only get a piece of the actual print run. So their number would be below the publishers minimum requirement. I can also see not wanting to say 3000 copies, when you really only have 500 copies because it’s split 4 ways between 2 covers. I know when Frankies shows his inventory Numbers it’s often in the 500-700 range as it’s split between a trade and a virgin then split with Golden Apple, Comic Kingdom of Canada, Mutant Beaver, Scotts, etc…depending on the book.
That is understood. It was not intended to be evidence, or presented as such. The only evidence needed was presented clearly before those sentiments were made. Hence the different paragraphs. I was simply adding a bit of logical thought and analysis to it all.
If we know that Marvel requires a minimum order of 3000 copies to do 1 cover of a store variant, which has been confirmed numerous times by many other retailers, and then we see stores selling that Marvel store variant, and advertising it as limited to 1000 copies, then we know they are not being transparent. In the past, when certain stores have been asked about this discrepancy, they are met with stuff upper lips and censorship. I know I may of just repeated myself. Lol.
I try my best to be factually accurate when presenting an argument. Im not throwing blind, baseless accusations. 
Yes. But that still doesn’t make them limited to 1000 copies. That limits that shop to 1000 copies. The latter is not disclosed, and the former is dishonest and misleading.
It’s not their job to disclose what other shops have.
If they have 1000 copies, I’m fine with them saying limited to 1000 copies as their sales are limited to 1000 copies. It’s not dishonest at all, but it’s actually factual.
Saying the print run is 1000, if it’s not, is dishonest.
But having 1000 copies and saying their sales are limited to 1000 copies I don’t see an issue with at all.
But to each their own I guess.
I didn’t mean to imply that you were throwing blind or baseless accusations, I meant more that there have been accusations in general that I have seen before. I understand everything you’re saying, and I’m not even disagreeing with you, I’m more just looking for specific instances to help back up the generalities that have been discussed.
He’s been beating this drum for years. I appreciate @jcLu’s concern for the hobby and his perspective on store variants, but in the 5 or so years they’ve been popular and heavily promoted I’ve never seen evidence to back up that this has happened or is happening.
Could it happen? Absolutely. So buyer beware.
But What I find interesting is that many who condemn store variants don’t seem to have issue with incentive variants and their collectibility. Hasn’t Diamond cleared out overstock of incentive covers in the past?
That’s practically the same thing. There is no published print run on incentives, and trying to estimate their numbers by using comichron numbers and dividing by the ratio is only guessing at best. Who knows how many are out there waiting to be dumped on the market…
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Once Every year , Marvel has a sale to “clean house” of ratio variants. If your fast you can get your order in before anyone else for so e really good ratio covers, including 1:100/200 and a Lot of the leaser ones. These are the over prints.
Always take the comichron numbers with a grain of salt.
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Marvel doesn’t lie to promote their ratios. Ratios over time have shown to be solid investments and ratios can be ordered by anybody at any shop.
There is a big difference between the two. You’ve missed the point if you think this is about collectibility.
Literally every Marvel book that any of these online retailers are currently offering is the specific evidence you seek. Again, we know the minimum requirement is 3000 for 1 cover for Marvel. Can you find one shop that is currently selling a Marvel store variant were that store openly discloses that? I can find literally one. The rest of the stores use misleading (at this point it is a lie) verbage to advertise them. They say ‘limited to 1000’ but they have a minimum print run of 3000.
If you want to physically count each copy and trace all the sales as hard evidence, then you are out of luck. The evidence is literally looking at you in the face every time you look at a store variant advertisment. Regardless of everything else, the truth does still matter, to me. (I’m not implying the truth doesn’t matter to others). 
Buy what you like, but know that the shops selling store variants are being deceitful with you. Ask them what the print run is on their book. Try to get a straight answer, that is simple enough to give. You won’t get it. It’s akin to a used car salesman refusing to show you the odometer before you purchase the car. If you are comfortable with giving your money, or investing in something that you really don’t know what it is, and the person who doss know, won’t tell you, then by all means, you do you.
Here is an example of a store being honest and upfront with their print runs.
Note that they advertise the print run at 3000 for the regular cover.
Note that they advertise 1000 for the virgin cover of the same book.
That is honest selling. You won’t find that print run advertised at Unknown or TFAW or sad lemon or midtown…buyer beware. In fact, you’ll find more often than not that those latter shops actual are deceptive in their advertising for print runs.
I see TONS of sites that show the minimum being 3000. You have to remember that subsequent variants of a Marvel issue can have lower print runs, so a variant being limited to 1000 is possible. That’s why stores tend to have sets of variants and not just one.
I’ll take the Comic Mint as an example since they have been brought up before. Here you can see their variant for ASM49/850 by Shannon Maer. The language regarding the size of the offering is:
This offering is limited to 3,000 trade dress (hood up) and 1,000 virgin (hood down) copies available for purchase in total shared across all partner sites.