We’ve seen Venom #7 and #9 rise up and down when it comes to Dylan’s first appearance. A fan asked Donny on Twitter, and he responded that #7 is the first appearance.
While the debate of cameo vs first full appearance will continue, the author is considering issue 7 as the first appearance. Not sure if this will effect the market though. Just throwing out more info.
In the end, just collect both 7 and 9
so the writer says 1st app of BWL is metal 2 but that doesnt do anything for market. 7 cameo, 9 full.
I’m with you on just collecting both. It’s the smart move.
Dark Nights Metal #2 and Teen Titans #12 have a massive difference in print run though.
I’m sure there’s a difference between the Venom books, but it’s probably closer to 15k or something.
That’s because those who are involved in the comic industry do not recognise a cameo as anything other than a first appearance…it’s irrelevant what the market says to these people … they are the apex of the market, without them there would be no market… when they draw a character for the first time in a book they call it the first appearance of that character has seen recently by Marvel Comics saying Wolverine’s first Appearances is Hulk 180 and now Cate’s referring to Dylan as issue 7… the reason the “market” refers differently is because the dealers want to keep the prices up on comics that are obvious major Appearances of a character, but still a first appearance is still a first appearance and not a cameo.
You are correct, however, I believe this distinction needs to be made;
A first appearance can very much be a cameo.
Within the collector community, those two distinctions are; 1st appearance in cameo. And 1st appearance in full.
Hence, a cameo is a 1st appearance and a 1st appearance can be a cameo.
For those who read the books, it is obvious that Dylan is in issue #7, and issue #9. No one needs to ask Danny Cotes what comes first, seven or nine? Of course Dylan makes his 1st appearance in #7. But the collecting/reader community decides if said appearance is a ‘cameo’ or a ‘full’ appearance, not the creator. This topic was discussed, at length, on CHU months ago…
…and I posted pics on CHU of Dylans appearances in #7, to see if the community thought that Dylans appearance in #7 was a full or a cameo. Whether that appearance is considered cameo or full is not Danny Cotes’ decision to make. No one individual makes that distinction. It is a collective, unwritten decision made among the community.
Im not so sure that the cameo/full debate is as nefarious as you seem to think it is. ‘Dealers’ did not get together and make IH181 the book to own, the collecting community did. Buyers, not sellers. Many theories can be brought forward as to why 181 is ‘the’ book over 180. Two words. Cover appearance. Wolvie is on the cover of 181, and not 180. And lower print is not always a factor. Eg. Venom clearly makes his 1st named appearance in ASM299. That is the first time we see Venom (pre cates retcon). But, the market has chosen ASM300, w/ its astronomical print run, as ‘the’ book to own for Venom, despite ASM300s massive print and 2nd Venom appearance.
There is also a rarer second print variant of Venom #7.
Shall I preach some more?
An appearance is just that, an appearance. If it’s a cameo, it’s still a first. If it’s just a single pane with no dialogue, no name, it’s still an appearance, a first.
First appearance doesn’t necessarily mean it will be the most valuable. I think some get these confused, thinking the first appearance should be the most valuable. Simply put, the market decides which book will be the most valuable not based on if it’s a cameo first, first or first full… however you describe it.
Brubaker claims Winter Soldier’s first appearance was in Captain America #1, but #6 is the money maker issue…
Well said poyo. Facts are facts. But what the market decides is the book to have has nothing to do with what the writer or publisher says. The market, and subsequently the book’s value, is what it is. Trying to convince the market is incorrect when the facts are already well known/established to those knowledgeable is like moving mountains.
It’s a good discussion, but if the argument is trying to convince buyers the market is wrong I highly doubt you’ll get far.