False Spec Opinions

#1

This is about, what I think to be, false comic spec made on CBSI. Looking to get opinions as to whether you agree with me or that I am wrong. I am fine either way. I will include a link to the story itself at the bottom.

So Topher is saying that Hellboy’s first appearance in colour and origin are in Next Men 14. He is seen in an obscured poster in the background and the origin is supposed to be that the characters acknowledge that he is a comic character. I think that this is extremely misleading and damaging to the collecting hobby. It gives an unclear view of what a first appearance is to new collectors who come to these sites looking for information, get a muddied view of it and end up buying the wrong books.

Of course maybe I’m overreacting too. You be the judge and let me know what you think.

#2

Yeah, I read that too. A bit of a reach. That book will never be more than a novelty. Kind of like the ads for Hulk 181 with wolverine on them that came out before Hulk 181 was released. Something like that.

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#3

I agree, maybe the hardcore Hellboy fans will want this in their collection but I don’t see this become a defacto on first appearance type of book.

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#4

Agreed, I’ve been following this, saw the initial article when it came out and observed the chaos when it became “an alert”.
I throw in the category of stuff like the picture of Beta Ray Bill in Marvel Age before 337, the kid dressed as Lady Thor, etc, etc.

It is a shining example of the power of “alerts” though…regardless of peoples views…a single alert or post can result in an insane pump and dump or demand on a book (speaking in general).

#5

that place pumps to dump all the time. they pump up stuff they already own to sell it off to newbie collectors who dont know any better.

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#6

Stopped visiting that site a while ago. It does seem to be a set up, hunting ground for the sheep. A poster of a character, in panel, is not a 1st appearance. By any stretch. Def a Gimmick book.
Alerts are a scourge. Anywho who pays another speculator for their ‘spec’, aka ‘alerts’, really should be well aware of the latter speculators intentions and motives. Im sure it has something to do with taking more of your money. :thinking:

#7

I hear ya, but I will say there is some validity to the book. It just isn’t a “true first”. It is more of a clever advert for Hellboy. Definitely worth more than a dollar now but not the $40 plus some people are asking on Ebay…and hopefully not getting. I could be 100% wrong but when people out there look past the “cameo” description this book is now being advertised with and actually find out “how” Hellboy is being shown in the comic I don’t think most will consider it a true first at all. Again, more of a cool novelty and something that a hardcore Hellboy collector would probably want…just not for an insane price. Time will tell but I really don’t see this as more than a $15 book unless it is a 9.8…even then not a bank breaker. That’s just me.

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#8

a lot of it comes down to how the book is described, if its just labeled as a first appearance with no caveats or explanations, thats definitely a pump and dump if all it is is an advertisement with that character. in this particular case due to the labeling of the article…it is pretty blatantly false info…“true first” would require that it conform to some agreed upon and universally applied rules.

there are people who choose to collect the first time a character appears anywhere (advertisements, previews…ya the big catalog…,the smaller marvel/dc previews, etc.). if the description of the book specifically says (or better yet shows) that its just an advertisement, as much as many people will justifiably say its not a 1st app…to that small group of people…it is…and for those people…getting 1st app books can be much cheaper.

as fair as it is to blame sites for bad spec, or pump and dump, its basically the hobby as a whole thats at fault for never deciding (as a whole) on what exactly is a 1st app…does a body part count…does the face have to be shown (i.e. not under a mask)…does the character have to be named or have dialog…how many cameos can there be before a first full…do cover only appearances count…if writers retcon unnamed characters in old books does that count…what about 2nd or later printings do they count…what happens when a character is in 2 books that release the same day…how about if a book was supposed to release first, but doesn’t due to delays…how about ashcans and self published books that later get picked up and released through diamond…or what about massive events like secret wars where nearly everyone is killed and then recreated (including the universes) do those count…

in particular cgc…they really should have decided on some clear guidelines the moment they started printing “first appearance” (or any variation of it) on their slabs…same would be true of cbcs and pgx but to a lesser extent.

if the only rule is “whatever book the market decides on”…then anyone trying to influence the market is only false spec/pump and dump if the market doesn’t follow.

#9

here is a recent example of them writing articles to purely dump books they already own. few months back they write an article about batman beyond #6 first app of inque. till this point this was a dollar bin book for most part. there were no sale history on ebay cause no one was buying/wanted it. but just so happens the person who wrote the article had a 9.8 cgc listed on ebay. article gets posted and book is sold in a day.

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#10

It is too bad that happens. It can be very self serving and selfish. All I can say is if sites do that too often eventually enough people catch on and just stop reading their articles. Personally, I like CBSI. I mean, its no CHU, but some articles are very insightful…but yeah, some do “push it” a bit. Thankfully seasoned collectors can smell the “fishy” stuff more often than not. The newbies, well that is a different story. Hopefully most newbies come here. CHU is a wealth of collectible, comic knowledge with a heart and soul!!! :orange_heart::ghost: (the ghost is the closest thing to a soul emoji I could find) I have yet to see an article on here that deliberately tried to steer the casual or serious collector in the wrong direction for personal financial gain.

#11

ALERT This is Hellboy first appearance good luck finding it.

#12

So this makes Next Men nothing really, figured Topher already knew about the Salt Lake book.

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#13

It pays to read the CGC forum :wink:

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#14

And this is exactly my problem with it. I have nothing to back it up, but after months of no sales, all the cheap copies I could find in the sold category of eBay were bought on the 18th, then the article comes out on the 22nd and now it’s a $40 book. I think it’s shitty and that he’s looking to take advantage of people and I’m not ok with that.

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#15

And I love CHU. This is my home base, but it’s fun to look around at what the others see too. It’s just a shame when the newbies are being preyed upon. Just looking to put a stop to it

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#16

That’s there m.o. Find cheap books with lower print runs. Buy up all cheap copies. Than pump it in articles and in YouTube vids. Than sell when price spikes. They do it with new books to.

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#17

To me, thats the icing on the cake for ‘evidence’ of a blatant pump. Of course Toefur knows about the salt lake book. This destroys his/their credibility. Next Men 14 doesn’t even Qualify as a ‘cbsi true/niche first’. They need a new regular pump post titled ‘true seconds’. :rofl:

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#18

Y’know, I completely forgot about that pamphlet…Does take a bit of the steam out of Next Men imo. I have to say I like Hellboy but I’m not a super huge fan so I don’t keep up on everthing. I was lucky enough to be at the SDCC when they gave out is SDCC comics #2. I think I will just keep that and be happy and not chase all the other “true” firsts that seem to be all over the place now.

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#19

Toefur, I really like that haha. I’ll have to remember that one.

#20

Well I thank you all for your input. I don’t feel as though I overreacted in thinking the way I had. Nice to be back at CHU where reason and level heads prevail! No politics being brought into things haha

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