Hunters Moon First Appearance debate

Ok. Got this email today

What says you. #1 first full appearance or #3. Does an app saying it, and an email referencing it confirm it?

Hunters Moon was shown in costume and named in issue 1. Now I know people who won’t want that to be his first because of the print run. But does Key Collector proclaiming it to be so make it so?

Now the doctor was in half the book as well as appearing in costume and then unmasked (if I remember correctly) so wouldn’t the costume issue make Fantastic Four #1 not the first full appearance of the Fantastic Four as they didn’t appear in costume until issue 3?

So let the battle begin (nicely)

The Dr Badr’s 1st would be #1. #3 would bethe first full app as hunter’s moon. He’s in full costume in #3 and is on cvr a. Where as in #1, he’s not in full costume when he shows up on the last page. He’s wearing a business vest and pants. In #2 we get a few panels, but never in full view. What really matters most is what the market decides is the one to have.

Some may argue Moon Knight #3 only because the print run will be smaller, hoping the smaller availability and supplies with added demand makes the value go up faster…

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See the book that I have is the full and the other is just a cameo, unless you have both then its both.
If I have 180 and not 181 180 is a full.
#SpeculatorLogic

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A couple other ones Black Widow doesn’t appear in her spy costume for a few issues but it doesn’t change her first appearance. Antman doesn’t appear in costume until his second appearance and that slab is labeled 2nd appearance of Antman 1st in costume.

So by this logic Moon Knight #3 is 2nd appearance first full in costume if that’s a thing.

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If Bruce Wayne is Batman and Batman is Bruce Wayne, then the first appearance of Bruce Wayne is also the first appearance of Batman.

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Unless a transformation is involved later like Dane then Dane becomes Black Knight. Or Gwen then 50years later they make her Spidergwen

3rd because he was in #2.

But if costume decides it, is Fantastic Four’s first appearance Fantastic Four #3. Logic would say by that argument yes.

There is no logic in first appearances.

Look at Detective Comics 647 & 648. 647 is called first Stephanie Brown even though Spoiler costume appears in 647. 648 is called first Spoiler simply because she names herself.

I’ve caught so much flak for this, but the hobby needs to set a standard and stick to it. If a character’s real identity and their alter ego appear (if only for one panel) in a single issue, that should be considered a first full, especially if they’re named.

If a character appears one issue, and then becomes something else a few issues later those two events should be separate appearances. Think of Black Knight & Jax. Jax appears in issue one, becomes Black Knight in issue 5. Issue 1 should be considered First Appearance of Jax, issue 5 should be First Appearance of Jax as Black Knight. Isn’t that how Echo and Ronin are characterized as well?

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The hobby doesn’t need to do anything. These “standards” are all over the place, from how a book is graded to be slabbed, second printings, first appearances, first costume…typically the value should begin with a good story and a good cover; I think we could at least all agree on that. Hunt what appeals to you; to each their own.

But since we are speculating, any news drives attention, whether we feel that is pump and dump directed or actually honest debate. This will certainly cause a spike in #3 that is probably unwarranted, unless it is also his first appearance without shoes or perhaps his first time speaking in a different language. This all boggles my mind…but since I have plenty of both, let me just grab my popcorn and watch the conversation unfold!

Was just havin this talk with the Drunken Chat guys. We all agree that issue 1 is his 1st appearance and name drop.

Now here is the last page and its just a mask and name. Issue 3 has his first cover

And I’ll assume hes throuought the story and interacts with Moonknight as Hunters Moon.

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That’s exactly what this is, IMO.

(And Hulk #180 and ASM #299 are true first appearances, but they lose out because of the following issues’ iconic covers. My two cents.)

Might apply here since hes on the cover of 3.

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I try to judge them case by case and try to guess where the market goes. The market kinda just decides which has the most value and the rest is just conversation.

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Cvr seems to always be a huge factor like that Solem character with wolverine vs x-force.

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That’s exactly what I preach. Market and demand just sets the value, but doesn’t dictate first appearance, first full, cameo, etc. Some seem to debate the most valuable = first but that’s just wrong wrong wrong…

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Solem is a different issue. As his first appearance was in the event “X of Swords”, appearing in wolverine and x-force (on the cover here) that both came out the same day. Where it gets funky, is that the wolverine issue comes before the x-force issue in the storyline of X of Swords, which is why the wolverine issue is considered his first full appearance despite x-force having him on cover and coming out the same day.

And the wolverine cover is pretty badass by itself with him standing there with all the swords in him, imo will be a classic cover someday.

True, however what really matters to me in discussions is which one will have greater value. I usually get both anyway, so it doesn’t ultimately mean much to me in terms of which is which. Every case can be different.

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